Cultivating Self-Understanding and Co-Creating with God with Sarah Malone

Meg Kearney (00:00)
Hello everyone and welcome back to Root to Rise Seeds for Spiritual Awakening. I'm your podcast host, Megan Kearney, and today I have a very special guest, Sarah Malone on the podcast. Sarah is a relational and spiritual teacher and coach, and she's also a clinical hypnotherapist. She's an author and wrote the book, Affirmations for a Peaceful Life, Awakening from Within to Find Peace in a World Full of Chaos.

which is the topic of this podcast episode. And in the episode, we dive a lot into our ego, how we can find peace within, and just so many great topics. She brings so much wisdom to the episode and to her book. So thanks for being here and I hope you enjoy the episode.

Meg Kearney (00:56)
Welcome Sarah, so excited to have you on today.

Sarah Malone (01:00)
I'm excited to be here Meg, thanks for having me.

Meg Kearney (01:02)
Of course. So my first question for you is what brought you into the field of holistic healing and specifically clinical hypnotherapy?

Sarah Malone (01:13)
Great question.

My journey as a coach has been about a 12 year journey so far. And it began with focusing more on the body and lifestyle changes. When I began experiencing and seeking my own healing through the spiritual part of things, meditation, sound healing, somatic healing, I began to experience, and this is something I've not told many people, wow Meg.

I began experiencing what I call visions and they're kind of

meditative visions that show things very quickly. And so I began leading meditations that similarly followed this kind of theme or style of visions, visionary seeing, seeing things unfold. You've been through one of my really very brief meditations. So you know that how it activates the subconscious mind. And so I began holding these meditations and somebody pulled me aside and is like, you know, you're doing hypnosis.

right? And I was like...

What do mean? You know, I had no clue about what hypnosis really was. And they're like, you should look into hypnotherapy. think that you're kind of already doing it anyways. And so it was something that, you know, I listen a lot to my intuition and the spirit. So when I felt that little nudge, it was no brainer to follow it. And as I pursued that, I quickly realized, yeah, pretty much all of the healing that I've had.

you know, that I've gone through has been on the subconscious level. I just didn't know at the time.

Meg Kearney (02:42)
Wow, that's really amazing that it was kind of a natural progression and that somebody actually noticed that you already had this gift. And when I did the workshop with you on the ego and the soul, you did use a little bit of hypnosis, which I had never really experienced that sort of quick bypassing of the rational mind. And I thought it was just so effective. I loved it.

Sarah Malone (03:06)
Yeah.

Meg Kearney (03:09)
And so that brings me to my next question. In your workshop, we went through the ego, the different ego parts and the ego's purpose in our lives. So can you talk a little bit about what the ego is and what its function is for us?

Sarah Malone (03:25)
Yeah, I would love to. First of all, I love how you phrased that, bypassing of the...

conscious mind or rational mind, the rational mind. Yeah, that's exactly what it is, right? And in order to do that, we have to, there's a very specific sequence of steps and the, or just the right space. The ego, the ego is such a fascinating topic, I think for so many, there are so many myths around what the ego is. Is it an entity? Is it like some spirit outside of myself? Am I haunted by it? Is it bad? And all of those are false. The ego is an aspect of our consciousness, right? So the ego,

Meg Kearney (03:31)
rational mind. Yes.

Sarah Malone (03:56)
It basically is our consciousness and it is kind of an aspect of the soul version of us we as humans are unique and that we do have a soul and I know not many people like to hear this but all other living breathing entities and things Including animals don't have a soul, right? They have a spirit that brings life to them. They have a personality and all these things That's the spiritual part, but the soul aspect is unique to human beings and that includes the consciousness and the ego and the ego is really

its main function and purpose is to protect us and also to have this thing called the human experience on behalf of our souls natural calling.

And if you want me to explain that a little bit deeper, would love to. Yeah. So basically all of our soul has a Dharma, right? Dharma, destiny, calling, purpose, soul, purpose. And in order for us to walk into that in this human, in the manifested world, the 3D world, we need to learn things, right? We need to experience things. We need to go through things. It's the whole purpose of life. So I know that this is not the most

favorite

thing to hear, but the painful part of life is the purpose of life.

because it helps us become refined into our souls calling and the ego does that for us, right? The ego parts of us, by the way, the ego isn't just one thing. It's not like I have my ego over here and I have my soul over here. It's like the ego kind of becomes fragmented and operates in our systems in a way of parts. So we are multi-dimensional, right? We are multi-dimensional. And I mean that in a very literal way and a very spiritual way too. But these parts of

of us, how we talked about at the Ego Workshop, will kind of take on a child or a parent type of role. Now, how they, what their personality traits end up being or how they express themselves may be different. And there are many, many, parts of us. But at all times, are really literally experiencing life through the ego. We are interpreting life through the ego.

We're making decisions based out from the ego's experiences and everything is really ego, right? So the purpose is not to get rid of the ego because that's not possible. The purpose is to learn how to be in harmony with the ego, right? Let's have the ego work for us, not against us, in an effort to be aligned with our soul's calling as well.

Meg Kearney (06:18)
I love that. And I think the ego can tell us so much if we're willing to get curious about it. And I know when we did your workshop, I noticed some parts that I had coming up, the child, the parent, and it's really an invitation for us to go deeper to see what this ego part is protecting us from. And I think there's so much out there of get rid of the ego, silence your mind.

Sarah Malone (06:25)
curiosity.

Exactly.

Meg Kearney (06:44)
Ego's bad. And like you said, it's just a part of our experience. It's what we come here to work with. And I love this idea of harmony. And you wrote a book that talks about creating harmony with these affirmations for peace. And you talk about the affirmations, you start each chapter with, let's find the middle. So can you talk about

Sarah Malone (06:45)
Hahaha.

Yeah.

Meg Kearney (07:11)
the significance of the middle when we're working with affirmations.

Sarah Malone (07:15)
Yeah, and first I just want to

Extend what you just said this whole silence the mind kill the ego when you know the harder we try to do that The more the ego kind of prevails and the more resistance we feel so this This harmony and like you said as an invitation to go deeper within Because all it is is going to give us more information about our beautiful selves Because we all are very beautiful and our ego just does things Out of protection of that beautiful self. It's all good

right? If we could just look at it. It's all love. It's all love. So let's find the middle. It's my belief that trouble arises when we swing too far from one side of the spectrum to the other, one polarity to the other, one extreme to the other. And oftentimes the truth is found in this very slim line in the middle.

Meg Kearney (07:44)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Sarah Malone (08:05)
And so these affirmations are designed to help us stay away from these really far rights, really far lefts, and to bring it to the middle because that is where I believe in this small space here is where peace is found.

Meg Kearney (08:20)
I love that. And in reading your book, I loved the idea of the middle because I, there's so much out there in self-help and spirituality and it's so easy to attach to something and just make it your complete truth. So I love that there's this balance, this call to harmony of all of the things that are true and kind of finding our way into the middle. So.

Sarah Malone (08:37)
Yeah.

Meg Kearney (08:47)
With that being said, I want to go through some of the affirmations that you've written and pretty much all of them spoke to me. They rang so true and they often touch upon our relationships with other people. And so the first affirmation I want to talk about is this idea that I'm responsible for how I feel and nobody else. And in this

Sarah Malone (09:04)
Mm-hmm.

Meg Kearney (09:17)
part of the book, you talk about the difference between hurt and harm. I would love if you could expand on that idea.

Sarah Malone (09:22)
Mmm.

Yeah.

So a lot of our hurt feelings and the pain that we suffer from relational experiences comes because we think that we've been harmed by somebody else, right? That we've been the victim of something done to us or done onto us. And to differentiate between, and I thought it was very important to make this differentiation in the book because I don't want to minimize anybody who is in a space of being harmed in a relationship because that's real.

But the truth is that a true victim is one who is helpless to their circumstances, right? That they are literally...

helpless to being able to overcome somebody who is perpetuating something onto them. I don't know about you, but in the majority of our life, I don't see many of those. In your slim, in your small population of abuse, physical abuse,

slavery, you know, even people in third world countries that are like literally enslaved by the government. Okay, those are true victims. That's harm. That's harm. I don't even have a way out of this. So when we take on this victim mentality that someone's harming me, we suffer a lot inside. And it leads to many things. Anger, feeling defeated.

unmotivated and a lot of mental illness, right? But when we realize that hurt is a responsibility of our interpretation of what somebody has done or said, we actually take the power back into our hands. We become now not a victim. We become a potential victor. I say potential because everybody has a choice, right? Do I use this weapon that I yield or not? And so hurt is an interesting topic because what hurts me

Meg Kearney (11:01)
Hmm.

Sarah Malone (11:07)
may you not, may not care about. And herein lies the ego part, right? How I interpret this action that's happening in front of me or this thing that's being said to me will dictate if I'm hurt by it. And still then it's neutral, it's totally neutral. And so because I've chosen to be hurt by something that you've done or said that may not actually be what it is in my mind, I'm choosing to be hurt by that.

And, or, when we look at this from the space of I'm responsible for this, how can I change the meaning of it? Right? How do I change the meaning of what I believe this means for me? Or how I react to it?

Meg Kearney (11:43)
That makes a lot of sense. And kind of going off of that, this is a multi-part question. So when thinking about the difference between hurt and harm, would you say that in childhood, we're more likely to experience harm, but as we get older, we have the opportunity to work through the hurt now that we have more perspective and more control on how we view it.

And how does trauma play into this as well?

Sarah Malone (12:16)
Well, I'm glad you said that because I was going to say you just described drama. Because in our younger years, we really don't have the resources, the capabilities to defend ourselves against certain things. And harms become much easier because we don't know any better.

We don't know any better. We don't really have a lot of free will at that point. We are literally dependent on our parents. And so if something happens that scares us, that's a harm, that's a trauma. And I would actually say the two go hand in hand. Right, that a trauma is, and the true definition of a trauma is anything that happens to us, either one time or multiple, you know, repetitive times, or that we witness happening, that we don't have the resources or capability of handling at the time.

Meg Kearney (12:46)
Hmm.

Sarah Malone (13:01)
in a way that just describes a victim, right? I'm not able to defend myself against this.

and I'm definitely not capable of understanding it at this time. So a trauma happens, a harm happens. Now, as we grow up, as our consciousness comes into maturity and we have more will, we have more resources, we have more skill, we have more knowledge, it becomes our responsibility. I always like to say, our harms, our traumas are not our fault, but they are our responsibility.

So again, it's finding this middle of I'm not gonna be like sitting in the shame trap of saying this is my fault, this is my fault, I'm a bad person, that's why this happened to me. That's one end over here. And the other end over here is saying, well, I'm this way because of what happened to me. Right, so to find the middle is to say, it's not my fault, but I'm taking this into my own hands now.

Meg Kearney (13:48)
it so it sounds like we need to have awareness of what's happened to us and maybe the tools as well to work through that and take responsibility like you said without blaming ourselves

Sarah Malone (14:03)
Well,

the funny thing is a lot of people, think, are aware of it. I think the problem is not necessarily a lack of awareness. It's a lack of...

Meg Kearney (14:06)
Hmm.

Sarah Malone (14:11)
the word I'm looking for is like, it's the lack of ownership. Right, because everybody knows what happened to them. Unless, you know, unless there's something hidden, which is a lot of what I do is find the hidden stuff. But we're aware, we're aware of how we're operating misaligned or not healthy or in pain. We're aware of that. How can you not be, right? The problem is,

Meg Kearney (14:16)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Sarah Malone (14:33)
slowing down and stopping and having, like you said earlier, a curiosity to turn towards that rather than, nope, just keep going, just keep going, just keep going. I know it's there, I know it's there, I know it's there. Like just because I close my eyes doesn't mean you can't see me. Right, you're still witnessing me there, but I can't just close my eyes and make that not be true. So.

Meg Kearney (14:53)
Hmm.

Yeah, that's so true. we, think you talk about this in your book too, is we need to have the desire along with the knowledge to work through these things. awareness is not enough, as you say in your book. And that's so true because we can just collect awareness for our entire lives and do nothing with it and just say, well, this is how I am. This is why I am the way I am. But true change comes from taking those actionable steps to work through.

Sarah Malone (15:07)
You

Meg Kearney (15:25)
what we've been through, we're carrying.

Sarah Malone (15:25)
Yeah. Yeah, awareness sucks. Awareness is awful, right?

If just with awareness, if we only had awareness, that would be basically hell.

Meg Kearney (15:36)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Malone (15:36)
Right? Like

that's the version of hell that I think we should be focusing on is I'm aware of how absolutely not okay I am or how not okay this situation is. So awareness is a first and dangerous step. I know you mentioned, but that's also in the book talking about that. but also desire without knowledge is, can be dangerous too, right? Because then we start taking just

Meg Kearney (15:39)
Thank

Mm-hmm.

Sarah Malone (16:01)
we start moving in a way that is unguided. And that's just chaos.

Meg Kearney (16:05)
Mm-hmm.

Yep, that makes sense. And I think in your book, you also talk about how we can become attached to this outcome, which I find myself in a trap sometimes doing this, where I have this awareness. I know where I want to go. I know how I want to be operating. And sometimes I personally can get stuck in this negative

feedback loop of, I'm not here. I'm not making any progress. So what would you say for people who have the awareness, the desire to move in the direction of where they want to be? What steps would you tell them to take?

Sarah Malone (16:38)
Yeah.

That's a good question, a hard question to answer. You know, I was just thinking as you were talking.

This is contrary to your success guru, motivation people, but goals I think can be dangerous. so how I like to live my life is rather like intention. People say go ahead and have intention and not intention of the outcome, right?

Meg Kearney (17:03)
Mm.

Sarah Malone (17:14)
That's what they're missing is they're saying have intention so that you can manifest this specific outcome. Okay, well what happens if that's not really aligned with your soul's calling? Right now you've just set yourself up for major disappointment. So I like to live life this way. Be intentional about what energy you're bringing, how you're showing up. The intention should come with what we're bringing and where we're going with this added element of openness.

Meg Kearney (17:19)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Malone (17:40)
Because when we have the openness, are very aware that number one, we do not know what we need. We think we do, but we don't really. So if I have intention that I'm showing up as my most authentic aligned self, that aligns me with my calling somewhere out here, right? That I can't necessarily tangibly touch, reach and grasp.

but it puts me in this direction then of where I'm supposed to go. And that outcome, by the way, may look totally different than what you thought it was. So your question was about the steps. Sorry, repeat the question one more time.

Meg Kearney (18:13)
Yeah, so what steps would you recommend somebody to take to move past awareness and start moving towards their desire to be authentic? And you kind of answer that it's just putting your intention into it, your intention to be your most authentic self. And that will sort of bring you on the path that you're meant to be on.

Sarah Malone (18:37)
Yeah, this moving past awareness. The first step is to pause. Slow down. Because our triggers, like when we get activated in those ways, are going to be your compass.

Meg Kearney (18:43)
Hmm.

Sarah Malone (18:51)
towards what you need to know about yourself. So to slow down, not just move past it, to slow down. And I guarantee if all of us just got into a practice of pausing, slowing down when these things happen, and going inside and asking yourself, what is really happening here? What is really going on? What's bothering you about this? And being a little crazy and having a little conversation with yourself, right? Like doing a little inner talk. Because all of this is inner inquiry.

It will lead you to certain places, spaces in time, moments in your memory, places in your body. And from there, you really have a choice, right? Do I push this away more? Or do I allow it to surface and tell me what I need to do instead of me trying to dictate what I think I should be doing?

Meg Kearney (19:40)
Yeah, stillness is often the answer to so many things and it seems so.

Sarah Malone (19:46)
And people think, sorry,

sorry, sorry, just one really quick. People think stillness is like...

You know, just like sitting there with your eyes closed, doing nothing, thinking nothing. Stillness can be movement. You know, stillness in the mind. I know a lot of people that walking meditation helps quiet their mind more than anything. So stillness does not mean, and this is in the book too, stillness, like, stillness does not mean that you just stop doing things.

Meg Kearney (19:56)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Yup.

Yep.

Sarah Malone (20:13)
And I think it's important to say because people always think, well, I can't just like stop doing something every time, you know, I have a feeling come up. It's like, well, you don't have to do that. But to be still in the mind, to not allow the mind to go forward, forward, forward, you know, just cycling, cycling, cycling, it's to just, what's going on here? Right before we start to react to everything.

Meg Kearney (20:36)
Yes, it is this inner sort of energetic sensation that we can connect to at any time. Why would our source, God, whoever make it so that we can only connect to them it when we stop? It doesn't make sense. And there's this idea too of artists being in the flow state.

Sarah Malone (20:53)
Precisely. That is a great point.

Meg Kearney (21:01)
they're presumably connected to their stillness and to God and they're doing something. So yeah, I think.

Sarah Malone (21:05)
doing.

In fact, I think the goal here, you know, and part of my main mission is to help bridge that gap because there is this fine part of the soul called the noose that connects us to that spiritual realm.

Meg Kearney (21:18)
Mmm.

Sarah Malone (21:21)
Right? And the ego, the conscious mind kind of like there's all this busyness around it. And in there is there's this just like this one single spot that where the stillness is that helps connect us upwards in that way. So, so what is enlightenment? Right? You might ask. It'd be that. It'd be living your life connected in that way, even while the ego is doing its thing. Not, not because the ego has stopped doing its thing.

even while the ego is doing its thing.

Meg Kearney (21:50)
Yes, because you're not attached to your ego. You're sort of just living in this state of non-attachment, which is another thing that you talk about in your book. Yes. So I want to ask you about the difference of healthy non-attachment versus unhealthy. For example, let's say I have a relationship pattern of

Sarah Malone (21:59)
Nice bridge.

Meg Kearney (22:19)
disorganized, which sometimes I do. And so I attached to this idea of, I don't need anybody. I'm independent, which I could view as non-attachment, but in certain circumstances, it can be unhealthy. So can you talk about the difference there?

Sarah Malone (22:28)
Yep.

So what you've just described is actually detachment, right? So there is attachment, detachment, and unattachment. So detachment is kind of like a, it is still an action of pushing away or keeping myself here, right? I'm either pushing something away or I'm keeping myself back.

Meg Kearney (22:42)
Mmm, okay.

Mm-hmm.

Sarah Malone (22:57)
Attachment is like, well, I think we all know what that looks like, right? Constantly reaching, clinging for this sense of worth and attachment. Unattachment is like, I'm here to experience the depth of relationship with you or whoever it is. Intimate, be seen, I want to see you. I'm fully here, right? I'm fully here for this. However, if something happens that calls you away from me or me away from you, I do that

with a sense of grace and love, knowing that I'm not attached to you in any way, but I also don't need to push you away out of fear. So to be unattached is a very peaceful way to live because you're allowing yourself to experience the fullness of relationship without the fear of losing it. However,

if slash when that time comes when they shall go their way, you shall go your way. It's done with a sense of acceptance and love. And, you know, I'm not my whole world, my whole sense of identity did not just crumble because you left me or didn't or, you know, I felt like you rejected me or I left. I'm still fully intact. Like, I'm still me. And that's all OK.

And that goes for other things too, know, not just people, but careers, old versions of ourselves, ideas of the life, you know, what my life would look like, family members, friends, pets. I have an attachment. I have an attachment issue with my dog and I will fully admit that.

Meg Kearney (24:20)
Pets is probably one of the trickiest ones. Same, me too.

Me too, I'm obsessed with her. I don't know if that will ever change, but yeah.

Sarah Malone (24:31)
Yeah, and because of that attachment, know,

I literally have prepared. I know I've done exactly what I preach not to do, but I'm human. That's how I know these things, right? Like that's how you're able to write about them. But I've done the thing where I play it out in my mind of like, what would happen when I lose?

Meg Kearney (24:41)
Mm.

Sarah Malone (24:47)
my little man and I'm just like, I can't even handle it. And I'm just like, I can't imagine what it's gonna be like, you know, because I am attached. I have a, like a very deep attachment and I know that that's mine to work with. That's mine to work with.

Meg Kearney (24:55)
Yes.

Mm

hmm. And it kind of goes to the point of using everything in our life as a teacher and your pet, my pet could be in our lives to teach us non-attachment, unattachment, you know, we can love them and not be attached to their outcomes. So, yes. So I think. Well, I know you talk about this in your book, but.

Sarah Malone (25:09)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Meg Kearney (25:28)
Part of being able to have this sense of unattachment and feel comfortable with people, things, pets leaving our lives is it comes from having a deep understanding of ourselves. And you talk about how important it is to understand ourselves.

I want to know why this relationship is so important and how can a lack of understanding keep us energetically tied up to people and experiences from our past or maybe in our current circumstances.

Sarah Malone (26:03)
Yeah, yeah, beautiful. All these questions are just so, so beautiful. Our relationship with ourself is the single-handedly most important relationship that we will ever have in life. It's the relationship that you have all the time. You can't escape it. You can't break up with yourself.

Meg Kearney (26:18)
you

Sarah Malone (26:18)
You can't,

you know, you can't leave yourself, even despite people thinking I lost myself and I need to, no, you didn't lose yourself. You're right there. You're always been right there. So the understanding of ourself is so important because how we understand ourselves will dictate how we understand the entire world and how we understand ourselves in relationship to others, right? If I don't understand myself, I have no idea where I start and stop and where somebody else starts and stops, right? I have no idea where my boundaries are.

have no idea what is acceptable for me as far as behavior, what's not. And therefore, I don't know how I can even show up in relationships. Until I know myself, I have no safety. Right? I have no safety because I don't know what I like. I don't know what I don't like. I don't know who I am.

I don't know what I want. And so you find yourself kind of like a leaf in the wind being blown around this way and that with whatever just feels like it's validating your worthiness at the time. Whereas if I know who I am, I know who my worth, I know my value, I'm deeply in love with myself, I make all my decisions from this place of what is loving and honoring to me. And then I'm only then, by the way, am I able to love others.

Everything else, and this this is a hard one because it's in the book too, but it's a hard truth to swallow. If I don't love myself and I say to somebody, I'm just I love everybody else, but I just don't love myself. I hate to break it to you, but you're not loving anybody either. All because all of that is coming from this place of fear or exchange.

Right? If I treat you this way, then I feel this way about myself. And also, you treat me good, you accept me, you give me this external validation, and it's exchange. That's not love. That is not love. And so our understanding of ourselves is essential, essential to us being in relationship to others. And it's actually essential for others to be in relationship with us too.

Because only then can we really act in a way that tells them, here's how you will treat me because this is who I am. Right? Otherwise, we don't give anybody a flying chance at being able to love us or understand us because they don't even know us, even if they think they do.

Meg Kearney (28:31)
That's so true. And yeah, it's something that I struggle with myself. I think we all can get in the trap of outsourcing what we want, our safety, validation to other people. And in your book, you also talk about understanding as a cheaper form of love. So when, maybe when we don't understand ourselves,

and we want somebody else to understand us. How? Yeah, it was really good. was like, my gosh, this is mind blowing. So you specifically talked about it in the sense of a relationship. If you leave a relationship, you feel like the person didn't understand you. You want closure. You want to make sure they understand exactly why you did X, Y, and Z. So

Sarah Malone (29:00)
Did I say that? Wow, that's so good.

You

You

Meg Kearney (29:25)
Can you talk about the trap that we can fall into when we want to make other people understand us?

Sarah Malone (29:25)
Yep.

Yeah, what we really want to do is convince somebody that we aren't bad.

in their eyes because we're projecting like if they if they broke up with me or if we left on this terms they must think this about me right so we're being so rude by the way to to try to pretend like we can mind read what they're thinking about us and so this this kind of myth of i just want them to understand me no not really you don't want them to understand you you just want them to see you how the picture that you want to paint

right? Which is kind of actually manipulation.

when you boil it down and trust me, I've done this too. Like chasing people to have my last word because this was all about my ego. My ego just really wanted to make sure like you don't start to paint your own picture of me. I want to be in control of the picture that you see me as. that's not love by the way. But the myth of understanding is the truth is that nobody will actually be able to fully understand you because they're not in your experience.

They're only able ever to understand you from their limited view along with their filtered experiences from the past, which you will also never know. Even if they said, here's how I see you. You now put your own filter on that. like, you you've also now just put another filter on those glasses. So the truth is that the only one who can fully understand you is yourself. often times when we're trying to chase this

of let me explain myself I just want you to understand let me say my piece it's because we feel miss we feel that we've misunderstood ourselves and it's a projection that happens where or or maybe this where we've actually acted out of alignment with our true selves and now we're like wait I don't know I don't even understand myself why did I how did this happen

Meg Kearney (31:08)
Hmm.

Sarah Malone (31:25)
Right? So instead of we go outwards to chase this, you have to understand me, you have to understand me. When we'll never get it, we'll never get that level of understanding fully from others. We've got to fully understand ourselves. And when we can do that, then we can more likely sit back and say, okay.

Meg Kearney (31:31)
Hmm.

Sarah Malone (31:44)
That is going to be what it is. That's outside of my control, right? I've got nothing to prove and me knowing my part, my depth is enough.

Meg Kearney (31:52)
Yeah, that is also very difficult to do. Yes. And I'm curious, do you think that there's value when we feel that we've misunderstood ourselves and how maybe we handled a relationship or a situation? Is there value in looking at it retrospectively to try to determine what was going on or

Sarah Malone (31:57)
It's hard. It's very hard.

Meg Kearney (32:21)
There's this idea that we keep having the same lessons come up over and over until we learn them. So do you think just let it unfold, it'll happen again and you'll figure it out in the future? Or do you think there's value in looking back at where we went and what we did?

Sarah Malone (32:38)
Such a great question because again, here's where we have to find the middle, right? If we go back there looking for something very specific in order to take with us into the future to like change how we're showing up, then absolutely yes. But most often, if we're being honest, people don't look back for that reason.

People look back to ruminate, to again, this false sense of control. If I only did this, if I only did that, well, what if this, well, they did this, how could they? And we kind of like just ruminate there. We just kind of like soak in this pile of shit. And with a bunch of open-ended questions. Whereas if I can actually,

Meg Kearney (33:13)
You

Mm.

Sarah Malone (33:20)
you know, reflect on that and say, okay, what went wrong here? And I have my clients do this actually, if there's something that really blow up life circumstance type thing of relationships, I say, I want you to just do a postmortem, do a postmortem. What went wrong? What types of things had popped up that now you know were like red flags or signals for you or what you did wrong? Like, where did you go wrong?

do that nine times out of ten they're like my gosh I see so I just ignored so many different signs and I then I started acting out of alignment so now I know right when this happens again in the future I know what it looks like I know what it feels like I will not ignore I will not ignore those signs so then we then as long as for that okay I did my post mortem I got my my signs in my checklist now it's done

I don't visit it again. Once I have extracted what I need to extract out of the experience in order for me to improve in the future, it goes bye bye. Trash can.

Empty it. Okay, so if we can go back and do that, then it's so essential. I would say in a way it's a must, but you could be doing that during the process too, know, analyzing. mm-hmm, this is a train wreck. I can feel it. In the future, when I see these signs or when I'm in a similar relationship like this, I will do this because...

Meg Kearney (34:38)
Hmm.

Sarah Malone (34:40)
By me not doing that, I devalued myself, I denied myself, I didn't listen to my intuition. So lesson learned, listen to your intuition. And there's where you turn karma into, you've healed a karmic pattern.

Meg Kearney (34:55)
So it's more using it as information instead of ruminating, wishing things were different. Just take what you learned and move on. And you just mentioned karma a little earlier. You mentioned Dharma. Can you explain the difference between karma and Dharma?

Sarah Malone (35:12)
Yeah, yeah. So Dharma is like your destiny, right? It's your fulfillment of your life's or your soul's calling, your soul's purpose. I think that we're all on that path towards that. I would say if you asked anybody, they'd say, yeah.

you know, I want to live into my calling. Karma is kind of the path to us doing that. So karma is, and I talked about this in the workshop too, is the sum of our experiences that span from several lifetimes that come in the form of lessons or challenges or obstacles in order for us to complete and step more into our life's dharma. So karma is the lessons. It's like, let's see, if you were to make

this into an analogy the metaphor would be if karma is like training right I'm practicing I'm training like let's just say fighting I'm in my training grounds Dharma is the battlefield in the victory so I can't go to I can't go to war and win a victory without my training I can't

Meg Kearney (36:09)
That makes a lot of sense.

Sarah Malone (36:11)
And you

can be in practice by the way and just sit there and not do and not participate in anything, which some people do, right? They just continue. Yes, this was super painful, but I'm going to just do it again. I'm just going to keep doing the same things, making the same mistakes, not learning from anything.

Meg Kearney (36:27)
What do you think, this is definitely a hard question to answer, what do you think the difference is between people who maybe stay there and people who decide, I'm going into battle, I'm gonna practice, I'm gonna fight and I'm gonna get my victory?

Sarah Malone (36:45)
I think it's two things. Number one, and you won't hear me say this often, but number one is less in our control, but it's like where our soul is on the path.

Meg Kearney (36:55)
Hmm.

Sarah Malone (36:56)
And number two is more in our control.

It's a mindset.

And it comes back to what we talked about earlier, I think, and this can probably go much deeper. I'm way over simplifying this, I believe. But it's the victim, right? It's this mindset of victimhood that I'm here and life is just beating me down. In that mindset, there's not even a curiosity of

Meg Kearney (37:10)
Hmm.

Sarah Malone (37:24)
What is possible for me? Can I rise from this? I don't even have the space to dream in that space, right? If you ask any, like if we were just to be a fly on the wall or go interview someone who's been held captive at war, do you think they're dreaming about their goals and healing and possibility? No, their only thought is survival and security.

That's it. That's it. So people who are, who choose to, by the way, view the world through this lens are not even able to think of destiny and can I learn from my lessons? Like they're just constantly in this wounded fearful state on the inside, whether they choose to admit it or not.

Meg Kearney (38:06)
Mm.

Sarah Malone (38:06)
Again, I think I'm way oversimplifying that. But at the end of the day, the consciousness, part of the consciousness is this thing called choice.

Meg Kearney (38:14)
Yep. And I think as I've kind of gone on my healing journey, it's sort of easier to tell when people are using their choice to grow and evolve on their journey. And when maybe they're staying in victimhood or just letting their circumstances be what they are.

And so in your book, you talk about how the ego tells us that we should be able to be around any type of people, thrive no matter where we are. I have told myself this many times. Why is it not true that we need to stay around people who may not

Sarah Malone (38:57)
Yep, yep, yep.

Meg Kearney (39:08)
value the path that we're on.

Sarah Malone (39:10)
Yeah, I love that you're bringing this up because everyone thinks, especially when they start growing, like, I should be stronger than this. I can overcome. I can be in any environment. And the truth is that when we put the ego aside, we can say, no, this is not a place where I can actually fully become myself. Like that's so non-egotistical.

Meg Kearney (39:29)
Mm.

Sarah Malone (39:32)
Right? That's absence of ego. That's to admit and say, I don't belong here. If I stay here, I'm never going to reach my potential. I've had to do that multiple times in multiple different ways. And it is so okay to say, this is not the end of our... Think about this, right? If you are a flower and you are to bloom, you need the correct soil.

You need the correct watering. You need the correct sunlight. You need all of these things. So it's like a flower refusing to leave the shade saying no, no, no, I should grow. I should be able to grow without the sun. I got this. I can do this. It's silliness. It's silliness. It's not true. And the reason it's not true is because we all need some base level of security and safety and support in order for us to fully

be able to thrive, heal and rise. Heal, thrive and rise. So to say actually you're doing yourself a huge favor and it's a strength, a sign of a strength to say...

this relationship is not going to let me reach my fullest potential or this career is way holding me back or my family as much as I love them I cannot be close to them because they trigger me and

And this is another aspect of know thyself, right? This is why it's important. Because if I don't know that me being in this environment triggers me in ways that I cannot operate in a way that's gonna move me forward, well, I have to know that. Because then I have to say, I'm being really triggered here and I can't seem to get a hold of it. Until I can get a hold of it, I don't belong here. So in order for me to get a hold of it, I can't be in it.

Right? If I'm wounded at battle.

I've been shot at and I'm bleeding out. I can't be like, no, I'm going to stay and fight. I'll heal. I'll rise. You you have to be removed. have to be removed. You got to heal. You got to get the medicine. You got to do the things and then you can go back to battle. But sometimes you don't go back to battle, but sometimes you just change environments. But so to say I need to remove myself in order for me to do these things, to heal these parts of myself so that I can unobstructed move forward. Then I may be able to revisit that environment because I'm more healed and I'm less triggered.

Right? That's a lot with family. A lot of times it's with family. People have to temporarily separate themselves from mom or dad or family because it's toxic and it just reminds them and it's like kind of just pulling them down to this space where they are trying to rise above. So temporary or long-term separation. Heal those things until you feel very solid. And see how you do when you introduce yourself back to your family. Right? How healed are you?

Meg Kearney (42:09)
The

family is such a good test and especially coming off of the holidays, it's just that's, that's what I think of when I think of maybe not being able to grow in a certain environment, not about my family specifically. I'd love them, but sometimes our families are the most triggering people for us. Definitely.

Sarah Malone (42:27)
Yeah.

yeah.

Yeah, because I

mean and also even if it's totally like you a great upbringing, right? The truth is that your family sees you as a very certain way because they grew up with you. They see you as you know, little Meg or a little Sarah or they don't see you as this like wise risen purposeful destiny soul version of you. They just don't and so they're gonna kind of treat you the way that you were.

and you being treated that way, it may actually see Bintia in a way where you're like, yeah, I'm just a little Meg, you know? I'm just a little Meg.

Meg Kearney (43:08)
Yes, but it kind of does go back to the concept of understanding ourselves and not latching on. You can't control how other people see you. It's definitely so triggering for having people that have been in your life for a long time because they do. They just get used to their mental expectations of you, who you are, and you just, the ego part.

Sarah Malone (43:14)
Yeah.

And

they put you in that box. You're in that box. And now because they put you in that box, you may also put yourself in that box. Especially around them because you want their approval.

Meg Kearney (43:34)
Mm-hmm

Mm-hmm. And then your little child part is screaming, hey, just see me, I'm different now.

Sarah Malone (43:45)
Yeah, it's come, it's... Yes.

Look, look, when

you act like this, they really like you and approve of you. So yeah, mega awareness. And I, you know, I think an aspect of people who can truly rise out of that is like, you have to be willing to fight for yourself. And no, I don't just mean like going and, you know, throwing punches at people that don't agree with you. I mean, like you have to be willing to fight for yourself. You have to be willing to say when somebody is trying to project a box onto you, no, that's not who I am.

Meg Kearney (43:54)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.

Sarah Malone (44:21)
No, I'm much more than that. And into, you don't have to scream it from the rooftops, but to live in a way where you say, I'm fighting for the fact that you will not put me in a box. I am much more than that. And I'm rising into that. You know, in opposition to you trying to put these chains on me.

Meg Kearney (44:23)
Hmm.

Yeah, it really is just relational dynamics are there's so much there's so much that happens in them. And we have relationships with everything in our lives. Work, you mentioned pets, people, places even. And going off of this concept of removing yourself from an environment in your book.

Sarah Malone (44:44)
So complex, yep.

Yep, yes.

Meg Kearney (45:01)
You mentioned that it's okay to have awareness that maybe you're not in the right job for you long term. Maybe you're not in the right relationship for you long term. Obviously your family, can't do much about that, but you say it's okay to have this awareness and not take action until the time is right. Can you talk about maybe an experience you've had where you knew something in advance?

but you didn't take action until the timing felt right.

Sarah Malone (45:33)
yeah. Yes, my divorce. I was married to a narcissist for five years and to be honest with you, it didn't feel right on day one.

But we moved through it and I thought maybe this is just what relationship is. This is what marriage is, know, you communication issues, you work it out, problems, things like that. I think that I knew years before I actually made the decision. But there was this something inside of me that was saying, yet. You're not ready yet.

And it was this weird kind of like, felt like the soul version of myself was talking to me. Like you're being equipped right now. Like something's building in you. And I knew, I actually knew almost like prophetically that it would be like something's building, building, building, and then I'm just gonna bust loose.

And that's pretty much how it happened. was like very climactic and catalytic. But yeah, I knew, but I also knew that I wasn't ready yet to do it. I don't think, and I'm glad, I'm glad that I listened because I don't think that I had the strength yet. I didn't have my own inner wisdom. Like during that time of toxic turmoil, it was...

my own level of inner discovery. I was inward a lot during that time. Trying to figure things out, trying to figure me out, trying to figure this relationship out, trying to what am I doing here? Why don't I feel alive?

I want to feel alive. What is my purpose? There's so much discovery happening there. Not that I could actualize anything for myself yet, because I don't think I could have navigated that. But in that space, something in me was building.

It was being created, it was being refined. And I needed that refinement in order to do what I would inevitably do was divorce, break free from that. And that's actually where all of the holistic aspect of what I do began. it had to be positioned right and...

And the other time was actually moving my entire life from, you know, Midwest Illinois to out to Arizona. And I knew for probably a year I was like, this isn't a place for me. My time here is done. I've outgrown this place. I don't belong here. You know, all of these things. But I didn't know where I was supposed to go yet. So I had to wait for that. So what I would tell people is that usually

you're not called out of a place, you're called into a new one. Right, so if you're just like, I shouldn't be here, but you have no idea direction of where to go or what to do, it's probably not time yet. You'll have an idea of, I'm moving here.

I'm moving in this direction. I'm being called into this new place. I've been released of that old one now. I'm stepping into this new one. You can't just step out into the abyss. You can, but it'll be a lot harder.

Meg Kearney (48:23)
It probably would feel more forceful of trying to make something happen. I'm curious too, I know earlier you talked about visions and is that sort of what your inner voice sounded like when you knew where you were going, what you were going to do next? How did it, how did that show up for you?

Sarah Malone (48:26)
more forceful for sure.

Very similar, it was like, hmm.

It was like a different voice to the same entity. Does that make sense? It was like a, yeah, it was like a spiritual whisper. Whereas the visions are like, I'm showing you something. Sit down and shut up. that one was like, that one was like, don't worry. You're growing something and it's going to be like this. It was very like, you know, it was very like.

Meg Kearney (48:48)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Pay attention.

Sarah Malone (49:09)
Partner-y, like as my partner. You're my spiritual partner. And the other one was like, I'm showing you this because you're gonna need it for the future. Yeah, I would say, you know, that's a really cool question. I don't think anyone's ever asked me that before. I would say it was like just two different voices of God, right? Because I don't think God just has one voice.

Meg Kearney (49:10)
Mmm. Okay. Yeah.

Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Sarah Malone (49:35)
I believe one may have been like the feminine voice of God, one may have been the masculine voice of God.

Meg Kearney (49:40)
Mm-hmm. God is everything. God's everywhere.

Sarah Malone (49:42)
Yeah, it's like

so you hear it in so many different ways.

Meg Kearney (49:46)
Yes, yes, totally agree. And that leads me to one of my final questions. So there is so much in spirituality, manifestation, the world, you create your reality, you're the creator, you know, you can do anything you want, thoughts turn to things, all of that. I've, I've been part of that. I've listened to that. And I love in your book, how you talk about

how we are creating with God. We don't have the ultimate say in what happens in our lives. We do have control over ourselves and how we show up, but we are actually co-creating with God who knows all, who has the plan for us, who puts us in these situations like your relationship where you're building towards something. You don't know what it is, but you're just trusting that God is with you and you're following that.

Sarah Malone (50:29)
That's right.

Meg Kearney (50:44)
So how can we work with God to create our experience and have this humility of we don't know everything and we are not the ultimate creators of our lives?

Sarah Malone (50:57)
that's so nice. Co-creators, right? Collaborating. To say that I'm a creator of my reality, which is basically to say that I'm God. And sorry, that's not true. I can do so much and, you know, the most I can just try to control and partake in everything. And circumstances will be totally different than what I wanted them to be, right? I'm the creator of my experience.

Meg Kearney (51:18)
Hmm.

Sarah Malone (51:19)
That's the egoic portion. How can we collaborate with God? I think this is one more case of finding the middle. Right? To say,

On the religious side, you have people that are like, just pray, pray for help and God will answer and He's gonna wave His magic wand like some genie and give you everything you want and need. And then on the new age side, you have, you're the creator and the the architect of your reality. And it's like, how about both and, right? So to collaborate with God is like that finding the middle, where it's to say, okay, God, you tell me what to do.

Guide me, show me, give me the ideas, the inspirations, right? Divine inspiration. And then I will do it. That's my piece. I'm in the physical plane, God's in the spiritual plane. So let me connect with that force. Let me listen. Let me be obedient, right? And then let me take action. And then let me take my frigging hands off.

Okay, because sometimes we get on this path and we're like, I'm collaborating, collaborating. And we eventually find ourselves clutching the steering wheel. I'm collaborating, I'm collaborating. You're not collaborating. You're trying to drive the car. So it's, you know, it's this really beautiful dance between listen, guided, doing, letting go. Listen, guided, doing, letting go.

You know, our only, this is so simple, and it's like our only part to play is to just listen. And we try to do too much. We still have to do, right? We have to take action. We have to, otherwise nothing happens. But then we let God do what God's gonna do because he's gonna do it way better than we're gonna do it.

it's going to do it way better than we're going to do it, right? The God force is going to do everything way better than we can do it. And so we have to do our absolute best, whatever that looks like at the time, be obedient, and then let the rest happen.

Meg Kearney (53:08)
Any time that I have let go and let God, as they say, I have felt so much less anxiety, so much more peace, and everything always works out the way it's supposed to. So that affirmation, that idea is just so powerful and probably one of the biggest things to work towards in life.

Sarah Malone (53:18)
Exactly.

Yeah.

Meg Kearney (53:33)
So

my final question to you, your book has so many beautiful affirmations. I love them all. And I feel like they give so many tools and tips for people to live these affirmations and create peace in their lives. So in your mind, what would a world look like where we're fully embodying these affirmations?

Sarah Malone (53:56)
I would be heaven. It'd be heaven on earth, you know. The way I see it is if everyone is living in this way, not only would we be walking in our soul's purpose and everything, but we'd also be so in service and in love for everybody else, right? So we wouldn't have to move in fear because

I'm walking in my own light and my own love and I'm also focused on serving you so that you have less to worry about. My gifts add to your life, your gifts add to my life. We are a cohesive, collaborative, harmonious humanity. Right? There's no power struggle. There's no competition. There's purpose. Right? My purpose is a contribution to you. Your purpose is a contribution to me. I don't need you to pay me. Right? We get rid of money. How beautiful would that be?

more money. We're just in service fully with each other and in peace and love and we can rectify any potential conflicts with that source of love. I think that that is truly what would be heaven on earth.

Meg Kearney (54:59)
That's so beautiful and hopefully we keep working towards this one person at a time, we'll get there. So thank you so much. Yes, yes. Thank you so much for all the wisdom you've brought today and in your book for listeners that are interested in your book and maybe you want to work with you or learn more about you. Where's the best place for them to connect?

Sarah Malone (55:06)
That's my mission anyway.

Yeah, my book is all over the place. So if you head to my website or you just go on Amazon, you can find it there. I think that's where you found it on Kindle or Amazon or something. So my books all over there, Bards and Noble as well. If you want to work with me one on one, I do, you know, healing protocols and programs. My work is not long term because my goal is to help you find yourself and find those tools within yourself. You can find all that information on my website, www.sparkflc.com.

Meg Kearney (55:30)
Yep.

Sarah Malone (55:49)
I also have upcoming healing retreats on there as well, next one in March. you know, to connect social media, sarah underscore spark malone. I'd be happy to connect with you in any way on there as well.

Meg Kearney (56:01)
Awesome. Thank you so much, Sarah.

Sarah Malone (56:04)
Thank you so much Meg. Your questions are beautiful. You are beautiful and I'm honored to share this life experience with you.

Meg Kearney (56:22)
All the links for this episode can be found in the description. And there is truly so much in Sarah's book that we didn't even get to cover. There's so much wisdom in it. So I would definitely recommend if you're interested, if you've been wanting to cultivate more peace in your life, definitely give her a book a shot. I'll link it down below and let me know what you think of it. Thanks again for listening everybody and much love to you all.